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On Being with Krista Tippett is a public radio project delving into the human side of news stories + issues. Curated + edited by senior editor Trent Gilliss.

We publish guest contributions. We edit long; we scrapbook. We do big ideas + deep meaning. We answer questions.

We've even won a couple of Webbys + a Peabody Award.
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Monsters We Love: The Power of Stories in Every Era, in Every Medium

by Krista Tippett, host

When I first sat down to interview Diane Winston, I told her that I didn’t want to start our conversation with zombies and vampires. I didn’t want to spend all of our time on them, but they quickly became the focus of the entire first half of our conversation nevertheless.

Diane WinstonAs I had sensed, and Diane Winston helped me understand in a whole new way, monsters — human and otherwise — are an immensely playful and deeply serious way in to the story of our time. And television — as she and I first discussed a few years ago through shows like Lost, 24, Battlestar Galactica, and The Wire — is a medium where more and more creative people are drawn to tell this story in fresh and surprising ways. Like it or not, TV is a primary place in this culture where we act out the ancient human compulsion to engage who we are, what we fear, who we aspire to be.

Not surprisingly, as much has changed on the planet in the past few years, much has changed on the small screen. There is what I’d call a whole new genre of total civilizational collapse. Art and drama confront reality by exaggerating it. The instability people are feeling and fearing from the economy onwards comes out in the new TV season through scenarios in which a mysterious plague has turned most of humanity into soulless zombies (The Walking Dead); total environmental collapse has sent humans back in time to co-exist with dinosaurs (Terra Nova); and aliens have disabled modern technology and wiped out government and civil society as we know it (Falling Skies). Falling Skies was co-created by Steven Spielberg, and its departure from the sweet memory of E.T. surely says something about shifting perceptions of the hostility of the world “out there” — extraterrestrially and terrestrially.

The Walking Dead and its zombies, as I hadn’t quite realized until I dug into this topic, deserve special attention. Its second season premiere was the highest-rated television drama in the history of basic cable among viewers in the 18-49 demographic. It picks up some of the themes and touches of the wildly popular Lost. It turns them inside out as well. In Lost, bands of survivors were thrown together to find their way out of a supernatural place; along the way, they knew equal measures of love and loss, tragedy and redemption. In The Walking Dead, Earth itself has become a supernatural place in a horror story way. And the zombies — murderous creatures who used to be human and are now reactivated brain stems — are not the walking dead; the survivors are, as the show’s creators tell us up front. Life is reduced to a nightmare. Moments of hope and redemption are scarce and short-lived.

Walking Dead TruckA semi sports an advertisement for The Walking Dead on its payload. (photo: Ewen Roberts/Flickr, cc by-nc-nd)

As Diane Winston points out — and she is one of the sharpest watchers of these things I know — these plot lines are thick with ancient, abiding questions of meaning, of the presence or absence of God, of morality writ large. In this show, we play a scene taking place in an abandoned church in The Walking Dead, which is as overtly theological as anything I’ve seen on television in my life — complete with a cross, prayer, confession, martyrdom, and overtones of Jesus in Gethsemane and the sacrifice of Isaac. Diane Winston says to me, at one point, "People have been asking ‘Where is God?’ for thousands of years and why wouldn’t we be asking the same question? And why wouldn’t we want to represent it in our own language rather than in the King James version?”

It’s a relief, really, to turn from zombies to vampires, who populate a number of shows and who at least have emotional lives and relationships. True confession: I am a True Blood lover, as is Diane Winston. Vampires unlike zombies, she points out, are sexy. They are playful characters for projecting ideas about mortality, otherness, and the meaning of being human. And in part because their “true blood” is obviously fake, they fare positively in contrast to other monsters on TV right now who happen to be human — the serial killer Dexter or the teacher-turned-meth dealer and murderer on Breaking Bad. It is completely fascinating to hear what Diane Winston knows about the intentions of the writers of these series — the fact, for example, that Vince Gilligan, the series creator of Breaking Bad's bleak badness, is all about examining the reality that actions have consequences.

As a mother as much as anything else, I occasionally worry about the severity of these images as tools for examining morality. But Diane Winston’s perspective is bracing and comforting in some sense — reminding us to trust the power of stories which have endured through every era of human confusion and darkness. I remember the psychiatrist and author Robert Coles telling me how children know what to do with stories — and that we shield them from the world’s darkness and despair at their own peril. It is after all their world to make sense of, to navigate, and to repair.

And in the end, this is not a dark hour of radio. We’ve layered lots of great sound of various TV shows throughout my conversation with Diane Winston. We move beyond zombies and vampires to fascinating religious complexity in 24's successor, Homeland, and the fascinating back story to HBO’s Enlightened. It’s a strange and unpredictable mix that’s in the end funny and scary, bleak and hopeful, endlessly mysterious and endlessly familiar. Like life itself.

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Theodicy Defined: The Power of God and the Problem of Evil

by Susan Leem, associate producer

Your Sky is the CeilingTethered between stone and sky. (photo: Enrico Marongiu/Flickr, cc by-nc-sa 2.0)

This week’s show has a theological term in its title that sounds obscure, even impenetrable: "Monsters We Love: TV’s Pop Culture Theodicy." Depending on your view of an omnipotent God, it could be both. ”Theodicy” attempts to answer ancient questions like, “Why do bad things happen to good people?” and “If God is good, why does evil exist?”

The television shows mentioned in “Monsters We Love” are filled with “amoral zombies” and “loving vampires” and “righteous serial killers," as Krista Tippett puts it. At the core of this theodicy is the question of what makes "good" people different from characters we can register instantly as "evil."

The Greek philosopher Epicurus came up with his own twist on the problem of evil, the “Epicurean Paradox”:

“Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence, then, evil.”

Merriam-Webster describes theodicy as a “defense of God’s goodness and omnipotence in view of the existence of evil.” And on the free will of human beings, one explanation of free will theodicy suggests that God values good choices from humans only if we have the free will to make them. This leaves the possibility for a misuse of free will, and evil choices. For St. Augustine, evil results from the failure of humans to exercise moral responsibility, not God.

What is it about watching the moral failing of others that draws millions of viewers to these TV shows? Maybe it has nothing to do with their final choices or even their failings. For me, it’s empathy for seeing someone else struggle between choices of good and evil in situations where it’s not clear to me how free their will actually is.

Comments
Osama Bin Laden is dead. God-willing the news is true. Yes, it is a moment to celebrate the death of an evil mastermind. But let us also remember that evil flows in the veins of all of us, as does goodness, and the struggle for goodness over evil is perennial.
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Shirin Ebadi with Omid Safi and studentsOmid Safi

The professor of Islamic Studies at the University of North Carolina and author of Memories of Muhammad has created an interesting comment thread after updating his Facebook status this morning. What do you think?

by Trent Gilliss, senior editor

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TimeGuards/SpiritGuards Trent Gilliss, Online EditorFigurative sculpture installations take on new meaning within the context of location. Art of the highest human form. Manfred Kielnhofer’s sculptures accomplish this task. The transitory nature of the work remind me of Antony Gormley’s public sculptures, especially his “Another Place” series of 200 craggy, metal figures on the ocean beach.  (photo: Matthew Beddow/Flickr)But, the Austrian artist’s work conjures up a more ethereal, mystical quality. They’re shrouded in mystery calling out their ancestors and their progeny. When the viewer looks from particular angles, they become diaphanous, almost soulless — like the ring-wraiths, the Nazgul, from The Lord of the Rings or even a rougher-hewn predecessor in Prague.  Even the introductory paragraph of the Austrian artist’s site reads like the opening to an ancient future, calling on the Druids of Stonehenge and the crusaders of Everquest or the worlds of Myst:  In the ages of the ancient advanced civilizations the presence of the Guardians of Time was recognized with respect, reverence and humility. Over the millennia a new mystery was formed and only a few chosen ones, like high priests, spiritual masters and shamans were granted to study it. They were the ones that got a deeper insight in the secret of THE TIME GUARDIANS. The beings were referred to as visitors from other systems, protectors or destroyers and even gods.(photos courtesy of the artist)
TimeGuards/SpiritGuards Trent Gilliss, Online EditorFigurative sculpture installations take on new meaning within the context of location. Art of the highest human form. Manfred Kielnhofer’s sculptures accomplish this task. The transitory nature of the work remind me of Antony Gormley’s public sculptures, especially his “Another Place” series of 200 craggy, metal figures on the ocean beach.  (photo: Matthew Beddow/Flickr)But, the Austrian artist’s work conjures up a more ethereal, mystical quality. They’re shrouded in mystery calling out their ancestors and their progeny. When the viewer looks from particular angles, they become diaphanous, almost soulless — like the ring-wraiths, the Nazgul, from The Lord of the Rings or even a rougher-hewn predecessor in Prague.  Even the introductory paragraph of the Austrian artist’s site reads like the opening to an ancient future, calling on the Druids of Stonehenge and the crusaders of Everquest or the worlds of Myst:  In the ages of the ancient advanced civilizations the presence of the Guardians of Time was recognized with respect, reverence and humility. Over the millennia a new mystery was formed and only a few chosen ones, like high priests, spiritual masters and shamans were granted to study it. They were the ones that got a deeper insight in the secret of THE TIME GUARDIANS. The beings were referred to as visitors from other systems, protectors or destroyers and even gods.(photos courtesy of the artist)

TimeGuards/SpiritGuards
Trent Gilliss, Online Editor

Figurative sculpture installations take on new meaning within the context of location. Art of the highest human form. Manfred Kielnhofer’s sculptures accomplish this task. The transitory nature of the work remind me of Antony Gormley’s public sculptures, especially his “Another Place” series of 200 craggy, metal figures on the ocean beach.

(photo: Matthew Beddow/Flickr)

But, the Austrian artist’s work conjures up a more ethereal, mystical quality. They’re shrouded in mystery calling out their ancestors and their progeny. When the viewer looks from particular angles, they become diaphanous, almost soulless — like the ring-wraiths, the Nazgul, from The Lord of the Rings or even a rougher-hewn predecessor in Prague.
Manfred Kielnhofer’s Time Guardians
Manfred Kielnhofer’s Time Guardians

Even the introductory paragraph of the Austrian artist’s site reads like the opening to an ancient future, calling on the Druids of Stonehenge and the crusaders of Everquest or the worlds of Myst:

In the ages of the ancient advanced civilizations the presence of the Guardians of Time was recognized with respect, reverence and humility. Over the millennia a new mystery was formed and only a few chosen ones, like high priests, spiritual masters and shamans were granted to study it. They were the ones that got a deeper insight in the secret of THE TIME GUARDIANS. The beings were referred to as visitors from other systems, protectors or destroyers and even gods.
Manfred Kielnhofer’s Time Guardians

(photos courtesy of the artist)

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